Friday, October 06, 2006

Today Let's Talk Video Games


A few months ago, I met with an executive on the Xbox team who made a most incredible statement. He said, "There are only two properties that count in video games right now, Halo and Grand Theft Auto."

I had to disagree. "You're forgetting about Mario," I said.

He admitted that he was forgetting about Mario; but he also said, "Mario isn't as big as he used to be."

Microsoft executives have a pretty good reason for burying their heads in the sand when it comes to Mario. They have an equally good reason to play dumb when it comes to Gran Turismo. For the last year Microsoft has had the next generation console market pretty much to itself. Next month, Nintendo and Sony are going to cut in on that dance.

Here are my predictions:

First a no-brainer--Microsoft will womp everyone this Christmas.

Why is this a no-brainer? Look, Sony and Nintendo are going to come to market with a few hundred thousand consoles to sell. Microsoft will have millions of consoles in inventory. Microsoft has worked out the manufacturing glitches. This is not a question of quality, it is a fact of quantity. Microsoft is simply going to have more boxes on store shelves.

If you want an example of how this happens, think back to the Christmas of 2001. That November, Xbox and GameCube were the new systems coming after a very lackluster first year of PlayStation 2. What happened? Microsoft and Nintendo sold everything they had in stock. Sony did not. But that did not change the outcome of the holidays. Sony limped into that holiday season with a two million console lead and it waltzed out of that holiday season with a three million console lead.

As Sony Computer Entertainment America senior vice president Jack Tretton said in an interview, “If they are going to catch up to us, they better start closing the gap."

They never did.

Look for Xbox 360, with its larger inventory, better price point, and second generation games to pull away from the competition this Christmas.

Now to the wild card--Wii.

In my mind, Nintendo is like a wonderful old friend who has a drinking problem. You like the friend, you like to spend time with the friend, but every so often bad behaviors come up and remind you that this friend has problems.

Look, the Wii is a souped up GameCube with a clever new controller and the ability to go online. Nintendo dazzled us all last E3, myself included. No one handles E3 politics like Sony, but no one manages E3 hype like Nintendo. And why not? Nintendo is everybody's old friend. We all grew up with Mario.

I like the look of Wii. I got a major kick out of Wii Tennis. Mario Galaxies was my favorite game at E3. You can take you Bioshocks and Sain't Rows, give me a good Mario adventure any day.

Like the old friend with the drinking problem, Nintendo is quick to fess up to old faults. "Yes, we really screwed up using cartridge format on N64. Yes, we did not support GameCube the way we said we would. Yes, we have been hard on third-party publishers in the past. Virtual Boy... oh, what were we thinking?"

And, like the old friend with the drinking problem, Nintendo bows its head after making these confessions and says, "We've learned our lesson."

And maybe Nintendo has learned its lesson. Maybe Nintendo has only learned the right things to say. The jury is out.

Here is what worries me. Nintendo promised that Wii would feature DVD playback and pulled it. In the past, Nintendo was a company with a knack for breaking promises. Nintendo says it will stick to its guns when it comes to making promises from here on out. Personally, I do not consider DVD playback a deal-breaker. If Nintendo can deliver on all of its other promises, that will be good enough.

What concerns me more is greed. Yes, corporations exist for one reason, to make a profit. Some companies manage this objective with subtlety and slight of hand. When it comes to corporate greed, Nintendo has all the subtlety of a pregnant elephant.

Observe... Wii is a souped up GameCube. Nintendo has even told some developers to create Wii games using GameCube development kits. Nintendo boasts long and loud that it can sell GameCubes for a profit at $149, so why charge $249 for Wii.

Oh yes, I know, Wii has built-in WiFi, Internet, and a fancy controller. It is approximately twice as powerful as GameCube. Fine, charge more... but $100 dollars more? Nintendo epitomized the "give away the razors to sell the blades" philosophy when it launched its NES in 1985-6. Now it wants to make money on both blades and razors while Sony and Microsoft still hand out razors for a loss.

Some will argue that Wii comes with a game packed into the box--Wii Sports. In my mind that justification makes Wii Sports the most expensive game since SEGA released Virtua Racing for Genesis with an processors chip built into the cartridge. Would you really pay $50 for Wii Sports if Nintendo sold it sepearately? Nintendo expects you to spend $249 instead of $199 or possibly $149 to buy a Wii because that game is packed into the box.

My biggest concern with Wii, though, is that Nintendo will run out of ideas for utilizing the controller. I'll tell you what, if Nintendo can keep up the quality with Wii... if we get more than one Mario adventure in this generation... if Nintendo lives up to this whole "it's all about innovation and fun" slogan it is unleashing, than Wii is well worth the $250 pricetag.

If, on the other hand, Nintendo starts to run out of new ideas six months down the line, as it did with Virtual Boy, Wii will be a major ripoff. If, come August, Nintendo starts pushing a standard controller and saying, "Hey, Wii plays regular games galore!", then Nintendo will have pulled yet another scam on the game-buying public.

Do I think Nintendo will do that? I do not know what I think. I am that confused. Nintendo scammed us all with N64, Virtual Boy, and GameCube. On the other hand, Nintendo has mostly stuck to its guns with DS. As I said before, Nintendo is that wonderful old friend with the drinking habit who now says he's reformed.

I hope it is so.

And now a word about Sony. I once wrote PlayStation 3 off entirely. I have revised that opinion. I veiw Nintendo as likely to do good with a lot of potential to screw up. I view Sony as likely to screw up with a great potential to succeed.

My biggest problem with PlayStation 3 is not the $600 price, which is frankly more reasonable than the $250 Nintendo is charging for Wii, when you consider what you get for your money. My problem with Sony is that I do not think Blu-Ray will succeed.

Sony knows that companies that launch successful new media make big, big money. The problem is, Sony's media never seem to take off. Betamax, UMD, Memory Stick--none of them have shaken the Earth. As for Blu-Ray... the prognosis does not look good. The reason people switched from vynal records to CDs was becasue they were tired of wapred records and stretched cassettes. The reason people switched from VHS to DVD was because folks were genuinely tired of VHS.

Do you know anyone who is tired of DVD as a format? Middle America is not ready to switch to $1,000 Blu-Ray decks and $60 Blu-Ray discs when DVDs cost $15 and DVD players cost $40. Heck, tests are showing that HD-DVD offers better resolution.

To me, Blu-Ray has laser disc written all over it. Do you remember laserdisc? Those were the LP-sized movie discs that came out in the seventies. Audiofiles loved 'em because they had a clearer picture than VHS, but laserdisc limped along for over a decade before DVD drove a stylus through its heart.

The success or failure of PlayStation 3 may ultimately be a referendum on the feasability of Blu-Ray and not a judgement of Sony as a game company.

Can PlayStation 3 succeed? I think that in order for the console to succeed, the PlayStation division may need to pull the rest of Sony out of the mire.

26 comments:

Alex L said...

Playstation sucks compared to both the 360 and the Wii!

Shawn said...

Alot of what you said, is true i must say, but in my mind, and heart, the best system i owned at anytime was the Dreamcast.......what a system, it had a modem, and the VGA!!!, what a amazing way to have a memory stick.....and it had its own mini games on it!...and the games...Crazy Taxi, Toy Commander, Resident Evil Code Veronica...the list goes on. I will always believe hands down Sega has some of the best orginal game content out there, and as sad as i was to see Sega exit the system wars, it was amazing to see sega games for Gamecube, Playstaion...and so on...as for the 360, it does look amazing, how couldn't it? with the insane amount of money that Microsoft has, and what it can throw at a project, its only a matter of time before it begins to domaniate the market. I myself only have Xbox, being a pc gamer, that system offers more games to my taste. But over this last week, my neighbor brought over his Gamecube, and i was given a chance to play Resident Evil 4 for the first time......all i can say is it is one of the most amazing games i have ever had to play...System Shock 2, AvP2,and KOTOR 1&2 being the best games i have played, it passed those hands down...i don't know if you have had a chance to play it yet, guessing you have, but if not, DO PLAY IT!.....and if you have, im interested in your thoughts on it??.....good blog Steve, as usual, and hope your redraft is going well, CAUSE IM GETTING EAGER HERE!!....lol, have a good night, later
Shawn

Steven Kent said...

Here are my all-time favorite systems in descending order:

Nintendo Entertainment System
Dreamcast
Genesis
Super NES
Saturn
Xbox
PlayStation 2
GameCube
PlayStation
Game Boy Advance
DS
Vectrex
ColecoVision


I can guarantee you that Xbox 360 will find a place on this list in the future and I suspect Wii and PlayStation 3 may make it too.
My list is not based on power or ability. It is based on the amount of excitement each console provided. I would be lying if I did not say that when NES came out, I lived for that thing. My wife used to meet me the moment I would get home from work and we would plug in the original Legend of Zelda and play all night until we finished that thing.
Any system that can boast a line-up with the likes of Punch Out, Metroid, Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 3, Contra, Super C, Double Dragon 2, Double Dribble, and Super Tecmo Bowl deserves unswerving loyalty.
That said, I think SEGA came pretty darn close with Soul Caliber, NFL 2K1, Dead or Alive 2, SEGA Bass Fishing, and the list goes on and on and on. SEGA went crazy supporting Dreamcast. Had that system come out under any other circumstances—nearly bankrupted company, no support from EA or Square, competing against Sony, I believe we might still be playing Dreamcasts in out home today.
In fact, stay tuned for tomorrow’s blog. I had planned on dealing with some of your questions even before you wrote this.
I am told that I should write more about games on the blog…

Shawn said...

lol, yes yes, i knew you would answer my questions before i wrote them, cause im that darn good....or not, just building myself up....lol, but yes i agree, Zelda for the NES.......many, MANY good memories there...but i do agree with your assesment of Dreamcast...it seemed it was cursed, which is sad, cause it was a amazing system, but i look forward to your answer to my Resident Evil questions and such tommorow!
Shawn

Stewart said...

I don't think the NES lost a dime on the hardware. It launched at $199 in the US and was built with some pretty cost-saving parts, such as a very generic CPU.

Steven Kent said...

Stewart, you make an excellent point. That $199 price point sounds right to me, though when I looked it up in Lenny Herman's "Phoenix: The Fall and Rise of Videogames," he listed it at $159.

Either way, the higher price got you a NES deck, two controllers, a Zapper, Duck Hunt, Super Mario Bros. Gyromite, and a Robot Operating Buddy. I think at $199 and even at $199, Nintendo was giving away the razors.

Having interviewed Howard Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa on the subject, I can say that they were of the opinion that they were giving away the razors. Also, considering the problems that the video game industry was suffering at the time, I think Nintendo had no choice but to come in cheap.

I am open to other opinions. I claim no knowledge of the costs of those parts by 1985-standars, and there is no question the main processor was a holdover from the 2600.

dreamoo said...

Hey, I got here from http://gonintendo.com/?p=6846 and I agree with your misgivings with Nintendo and their falling through with a whole bunch of promises, but I was wondering about your prices. As far as I know, when the Gamecube first came out in Canada it retailed for like $300 (maybe $250 US then) and right now, you can pick one up for $100 Canadian.

Also, the DS retails here for like $149 so I really doubt they could release the Wii for the same price; if people are willing to pay that $150 for the handheld then surely they'll fork over the $250 for the console, even if that seems rather high for a ordinarily budget-friendly system.

I agree pretty much with your rant on Sony and failed media formats, because my dad was a Sony media mule and swallowed all the failed formats. We have a whole house full of LDs, MDs, and other obscure formats no one has even heard of. It's true, people just don't need the Blu-Ray, and certainly don't need that price tag.

anglachel said...

The $250 price point admittedly came as a blow to me. I was so sure Nintendo, humbled by the embarassing fate of the Gamecube, would play hard ball by coming in sub $200. Heck perhaps even with WiiSports packed in.

So yes, I was disappointed by the announcement...but it does make a lot of sense: as a greedy corporation, Nintendo knows it will sell out of its entire 4 million unit allotment this winter. I don't think anyone doubts that - relative tech value notwithstanding, they are coming in at a reasonably attractive price for new tech versus their competitors (one of which will be utterly hamstrung by unit shortages). I believe that they decided it made the most sense to make the most money off this given result.
(Of note, I want to mention that I think that at the $199 price point the Wii would actually be coming in under total cost (including extensive development costs, an expensive controller and what will have to be a humongous advertising budget). Thus the inclusion of WiiSports (the manufacture costs of which is likely inconsequential) and the subsequent bump up in price is indeed the difference btwn giving away those razors and making money off 'em).

The goal for Wii this winter is to build frothing hype - with the media blitz they likely have waiting in the wings pushing a bona-fide fresh new product experience, Wii will be a Christmas season superstar ( apparently to be outshined only by the newest Talking Elmo doll =P). This hype should push well into mid-next year keeping units briskly moving...and remember that Nintendo needs to serve three high-demand markets, with Japan in particular looking particularly hungry for their product as of late.

Furthermore, Nintendo knows hardcore gamers will be drawn to the system like girls to a cute puppy: we will all be fawning over the newest Zelda. This frees them to focus their expensive ad campaign on the "lost" (people who "outgrew" gaming) and non-traditional segment...the Wii Channels as such were a beaut of an idea if the interface is as nonthreatening as I have read.

As such Nintendo, I believe, is ultimately in a great position for the next 6 months to a year...and of course they have the retaliatory fallback of cutting WiiSports and dropping the price to $199. My major concern somewhat echoes yours: I have yet to see an innovative product of the magnitude of a Nintendogs or a Brain Training. Virtual tennis/bowling and the like are (fun) novelties, but I want to know what kind of Wii software will cause the so-called nongamer to alter their daily routine as the above titles have proven to accomplish. The Wii Channels are currently the closest application, but I feel there has to be something more to make that breakthrough to the new market.

Speaking of the Wii Channels, Steven, what kind of extensions do you forsee Nintendo offering as priced downloadables (we already know of the browser and the virtual console games)...for instance, could they offer a "DVD Channel" that will download the necessary firmware and permissions to turn the Wii into a DVD player?

Quiznon said...

Something I'd like to point out that you seem confused about, and in fact many people seem confused about.

The comments that Nintendo has made that the Wii is basically a Gamecube is talking about the basic structure. In the same way that a low end computer and a high end computer have the same basic structure. Programs made for the low end computer can run on the high end computer without problem, however the high end computer is capable of much more.

So take a low end, even used computer, and compare it in price to a computer with twice the processor speed. Depending on the deal you find, more likely than not it will be more than $100 difference.

Throw on top of that the R&D, new controller, and everything else you mentioned, I doubt Nintendo is making a huge profit off of the individual Wii units.

Also, From everything I've seen there will be more than a "few hundred thousand" Wiis at launch, and probably plenty more after that.

Otherwise, nice article, just wanted to help clear up some misconceptions.

Quiznon said...

Something I'd like to point out that you seem confused about, and in fact many people seem confused about.

The comments that Nintendo has made that the Wii is basically a Gamecube is talking about the basic structure. In the same way that a low end computer and a high end computer have the same basic structure. Programs made for the low end computer can run on the high end computer without problem, however the high end computer is capable of much more.

So take a low end, even used computer, and compare it in price to a computer with twice the processor speed. Depending on the deal you find, more likely than not it will be more than $100 difference.

Throw on top of that the R&D, new controller, and everything else you mentioned, I doubt Nintendo is making a huge profit off of the individual Wii units.

Also, From everything I've seen there will be more than a "few hundred thousand" Wiis at launch, and probably plenty more after that.

Otherwise, nice article, just wanted to help clear up some misconceptions.

Steven Kent said...

I confess a lot of ignorance when it comes to Wii Channels.

I have followed the pricing of the games for Virtual Console; and I admit, I admire what they have done. Yes, I have played many of my favorite NES games on GBA, but I'll cough up another buck to download them again.

I was thinking one price would fit all; so when they said, "a buck for NES, $5 for Super NES, and $10 for N64," I thought, "Cool, I won't be spending $10 anytime soon."

As to pricing, R&D costs, and the $149 price tag; I confess, you guys have me curious. I am turning to NPD and an analyst friend for answers, and I will post what they tell me--even if I need to spit out a few crow feathers as I type.

Steven Kent said...

By the way, you guys are right about the number of consoles at launch. Nintendo is claiming 4 million. Even if they pull a typically Nintendo switch at launch and show up with far, far less, they will still have more than the "few hundred thousand" I mentioned.

I will be very interested to see how many consoles actually do land on store shelves this year. My experience with Nintendo is that it has made an tradition of undershipping whatever its big product is every Christmas, then having its spokespeople throw up their hands and say, "Wow! We could not keep up with demand!"

ala:
Super NES
Donkey Kong Country
N64
Diddy Kong Racing
Zelda : Ocarina of Time
GameCube
Game Boy Advance
GBA SP
Nintendo DS

SuperRob said...

Long time, no see, Steven!

I have to say that I fully agree with most of your comments. I'm having a great time with the 360, I'm tired of getting my heart broken by Nintendo, and I don't think that Sony pinning the success of the PS3 on BluRay was a smart choice. (Actually, Sony is using PS3 to make BluRay a success, rather than vice-versa. PS3's intent is to kill HD-DVD.)

However, I don't think Nintendo will run out of ideas for Wii, mostly because the Wii interface doesn't really need new ideas. The interface translates to movement so easily that it looks to be a trivial matter to find a way to convert a traditional game action to a movement. Think of it this way ... games are so difficult today because we've spent nearly 20 years learning to think in terms of button presses rather than movement. Ever seen a new gamer play Mario for the first time, and actually lift the controller when trying to make him jump? Sure, everyone has. That movement is intuitive, and it'll take far less effort to untrain us. Soon we'll be jumping with a flick of the wrist.

I think Nintendo's chances for success aren't going to be determined by pundits like you or myself ... we're the antithesis of what Nintendo wants to be. It's the same reason why Nintendo is trying to make money on the razors now ... they can be assured that the core gamers will deliver the profits any more. They know that they need to make money on everything if this experiment is going to succeed (and they'll make even more on the core gamers than usual). If they do succeed, they'll be making more money than they'll know what to do with.

Sure, Microsoft might win if you count installed base. I don't think Nintendo is going to pull the tricks of the past though, because they know that they've got a hurdle to overcome. (Rumors say that Nintendo is even exceeding their own production forecasts, so short-shipping shouldn't be a concern unless they do try to use a shortage as demand generation, like they did with the N64.) But with Wii making all of the "Hot Holiday Toy" lists, Nintendo will sell as many as they can get into stores. Probably not enough to outsell the Xbox 360, but the attach rate might be higher.

I guess we'll know in a couple months.

Dr. Jones said...

Steven,

Great blog post, followed up by an even greater list of your favorite systems and the explanation. My favorite system of all time is a battle between the Dreamcast and the NES, though I tend to give the Dreamcast a little bit of an edge since:

A. I became a Sega gamer with the Genny after my NES

B. there was so much to love in pretty much a two year time span.

I have to disagree with Shawn a bit, as I have seen a MAJOR dropoff in Sega's reliable quality since they stopped producing for the Dreamcast. I mean, the two best games they've done since are Virtua Fighter 4 for the PS2 and Astro Boy: Omega Factor for the GBA. Most of the other stuff they have put out has been good to lackluster.

Anyhow, I can't wait to see what else you have in store for future blog posts. Keep up the good work.

h3lios said...

Awesome post.

Though my money's on an x360 christmas, for the simple reason, its got a good roster of great second gen games. Or atleast a more refined selection of games in comparison to the PS3 and Wii. And games are what will sell the system. Rather than the Wii/PS3-hype that seems ,in my opinion, a tad unjustified.

Personally,this winter will be PS2 dominated, what with FFXII and Okami to play. And perhaps some GC loving with Twilight Princess due in December.

Daniel Thomas MacInnes said...

A lot of interesting thoughts in this post. I think Steven Kent is expressing a lot of the same thoughts and doubts about Nintendo's chances for the next year with tne new Wii console.

I've written some posts about this on my own games weblog, so I don't feel the need to harp on the same points here again.

Two thoughts: one, Nintendo will have tremendous success with Wii for the first six months; after that, it's anybody's game. Two, if you're whining about the price of the console, maybe you should find yourself another hobby. May I suggest something that America desperately needs, like reading or exercise?

Here's the kicker about Wii's $250 price. I think most gamers were looking to Nintendo's new console as a side dish. It's not a real games console, just a little something you pull out three times a year when the marquee title - Mario, Zelda, Metroid - comes out. After that, it's back to Halo.

That price tag pretty much shoots that scheme to pieces. Now you can't plan on buying Xbox 360 and Wii, or PS3 and Wii. One way or another, you have to make a choice. You have to pick one machine, and stick with it.

Nintendo's problem is that they still think they deserve an equal place at the table. They're not just relegated to the nostalgia trip yet. The success of DS has put the wind in their sails, and they intend to continue gambling. Win or lose, they're going to show up with guns blazing.

Maybe that's a bad metaphor. It makes me think of The Wild Bunch.

Anyway, it's almost a given that every Wii console from here to New Year's will sell out. Nintendo will either sell out every $200 Wii or every $250 Wii. Right now, it's free money, and it's theirs for the taking. No sane businessman would pass that opportunity up.

For that, you can thank Microsoft and Sony, whose outrageously overpriced toys created this whole sorry mess. I paid $200 for Dreamcast, and that was the best console since the Genesis. Hell, it may be the best multiplayer console ever. I'm not paying two or three times that for the same stale reruns of games I lost interest in a decade ago.

This is all a long-winded, convoluted way of saying that 2007 is shaping up to be an interesting year. It could go any way. Any one of these consoles could emerge the winner by 2008. Get ready kids, it's the Second Great Console War.

Matthew said...

I think Penny Arcade sums up the Wii price perfectly:

"The price needs to simultaneously say that "we are not those other guys" while somehow retaining the idea that their machine is the same type of product."

mark-n said...

I too, was thinking if Nintendo could come up with really cool game ideas for their unique controller. I mean, look at StarFox or Castlevania or New SMB for the DS. What does the stylus really bring for the gameplay? In StarFox, you draw the paths for your units, and control your Arwing with the stylus (I'd rather control the Arwing the traditional way.) In Castlevania, you draw Seals in certain rooms to get to the boss, but everything else is pretty much done with the buttons. Same thing with SMB, although instead of drawing something you tap your stored power-ups in the bottom screen to release it whenever you need it.

The thing is, 2 years into it's life, I've yet to see a game on the DS that really uses it's unique interface in a really interesting way, and I fear this might be the case with the Wii. Here's wishing the best of luck for Nintendo. Please come up with something that will really inspire the modern gamer!

llamapalooza87 said...

QUOTE:
Nintendo Entertainment System
Dreamcast
Genesis
Super NES
Saturn
Xbox
PlayStation 2
GameCube
PlayStation
Game Boy Advance
DS
Vectrex
ColecoVision
------------------

Does this mean that the N64 is, as Stephen Colbert would say, DEAD TO YOU?

Anyway, I think you make some great points in general, but I feel like the Playstation 3's $599 price (and keep in mind that, like what has happened with the 360, the cheaper bundle will appear to consumers as inferior and as a rip-off) will NOT appeal to consumers. Sure, you get plenty for your money, but new consumers will NOT justify spending $600 on "a toy." Sure, they get the hardcore and the early adopters, but all of Sony's success thus far has been from their appeal to the casual, young adult (read: low-paying job/college/more important things in life than games) crowd, and they are alienating that market. These people won't see "BLURAY PLAYER CELL PROCESSOR GRAPHICS AMAZING," they'll see "FIVE HUNDRED NINETY NINE US DOLLARS." And to say that Sony's been doing an excellent job with the hardcore would hardly be reasonable. The hardcore crowd will notice that its graphics are shiny, but they'll also notice the hideous arrogance of Sony executives ("the PS3 is too cheap," "five million consumers will buy it on launch day without games"), the weak launch lineup, and Sony blunders ("RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDGE RACER!" and "Ancient Japan... Giant Enemy Crab... Attack its Weak Point for MASSIVE DAMAGE.").

Now, Wii's Price Point... I completely understand what you're saying and I myself, as a consumer, felt a bit angered when I heard the announcement. That being said, it's important to consider a few things. I think part of the price decision was the exact opposite of what was mentioned about mass market appeal. Nintendo KNOWS that to market it at $200 will make it look like a cheap immitation and like a toy. "If something's more expensive, it MUST be better!" says the subconscious consumer in all of us. The $250 price point was intended to LEGITIMIZE it in consumers' minds. It's something that they can easily pick up, but it's not a cheap knock-off. And you do get a LOT of technology for that-- a remote that can sense where it's pointed and how it's moved, the sensors to detect that motion, FIVE games, a Gamecube, and a system with twice the power of the Gamecube ($99 system, twice the power... $200?), onboard memory, WiFi, Bluetooth, and five (or more?) emulators.

Also, have a bit more confidence in the "Wii-mote." Look at the DS- sure it started out rather gimmicky, but developers quickly realized new, innovative ways to integrate the touch-screen technology into their games WITHOUT it feeling tacked-on. Yet games like Cooking Mama show that they still have innovative uses coming often. The Wii controller can replicate anything you can do with your arm-- there's a lot of potential. Besides, it took them 10-15 years to start running out of ideas for D-Pads/Joysticks and Buttons... the Wii remote will have good ideas for plenty of time. And, seriously, can you come up with ONE time that Nintendo has been wrong about a control innovation? D-Pad, rumble, Analog stick, Shoulder Buttons... you get the idea. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. And Sony clearly felt threatened enough to shamelessly copy it, as usual.

Finally, Nintendo franchises are still reliable, even if Microsoft doesn't think so. Pokemon, though most analysts think it's a fad, is a CONSISTENT best-seller. They actually release THE SAME GAME with a different distribution of creatures and a different picture on the box, and it still sells millions and tops the chart. Everyone knows who Mario is. Parents will get Mario for their kids because they know he is family-friendly, and those who haven't played games since NES still know who Mario is. Nintendo could sell thousands of empty boxes with Zelda on the cover and its fanboys would still CELEBRATE. Metroid is up there, too. As long as Miyamoto is around, Nintendo's franchises are going to be huge and profitable, no matter what.

My point is, Nintendo survived this "flop" of a generation because of its dedicated fanbase and because IT KNOWS WHAT IT'S DOING.

And, finally (really, I'll stop rambling soon), last I checked, no matter who sold the most systems, Microsoft's games division has still been a net loss, and Sony's spent AT LEAST $1bil on PS3 research, development, and manufacturing. Nintendo, the supposed loser of the last generation, on the other hand, profited off of each 'Cube, and the same stands to be true for Wii. No matter who sells the most, Nintendo will still profit insanely.

boredgenius said...

If Nintendo priced the Wii unit between $200 - $150 dollars, then it (the company) is shooting itself on the foot.

Why so?

Because at that price point, they can't reasonably lower the prices anymore without getting hurt in the pocket.

think about it, if their initial price point is $175, how much would they sell their lower-priced unit sometime in the future (usually coinciding a season: summer, or xmas, etc)? $150? $135?

Whereas with the initial price point of $250, Nintendo can easily lower that to, say, $200 come next mid-year, then $165 next holiday season, so on and so forth.

Steven Kent said...

Mark, I mostly agree, though I must say, "Brain Age" uses every last gadget on DS brilliantly. That is the game that most makes Nintendo's case about innovation and fun in my mind.

Please understand, I am not in any way counting Nintendo out. I just want to give them time to do what they have promised to do.

Steven Kent said...

kjoswnqMark, I mostly agree, though I must say, "Brain Age" uses every last gadget on DS brilliantly. That is the game that most makes Nintendo's case about innovation and fun in my mind.

Please understand, I am not in any way counting Nintendo out. I just want to give them time to do what they have promised to do.

Hulkster said...

While I do agree with most of your comments, I don't feel that the N64 or Gamecube let me down. I was a child of the 80's and I grew up with the NES (and my older brother's Atari 2600), and bought every Nintendo system since, except for the Virtual Boy. I thought the N64 was great, giving us Zelda:OOT which is considered by many as the greatest game ever made, Goldeneye (one of the best FPS ever made), Mario 64, etc. etc. etc. The Gamecube, while lackluster at launch, produced some solid first party titles. It wasn't as great as the former Nintendo systems, but I don't think it necessarily let me down.

That being said, I also think that the Xbox 360 is getting way too much credit. There are some good games (most of which are available for the PC) and there are some games coming out in the future that will be nice...but it really doesn't appeal that much to me. I'm a huge Nintendo fan, but I'm also a huge Microsoft fan...just not on the console side. The Xbox Live service is nice, but you have to pay for it. It seems to me that since the Internet is "free", why not make the connection between the games free? Nintendo has always been about value, and although the price point to some may be about $50 more than they would like...I think the price is still right on several different levels.

1. New way to play games
2. Free online service
3. Wiisports bundled in

The new way to play games is the big one here, and the one I would focus most of my attention to. You worry that the novelty of the controller will wear off after 6 months...does that mean that you have never doubted the novelty of the standard controller when it first came out? I went from the Atari 2600 joystick with one button, to the NES d-pad with 2 buttons. It was just a new way to play games, and it ended up being the right one.

It seems to me that the PS3 and 360 have the same philosphy: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...but let's just add more bells and whistles and charge more". How many pixels do you really need to enjoy a game? Did Pac-man make millions because of all the 3D shaders in it? Does Zelda always sell because when monsters are destroyed they disappear into smoke rather than a bloody mess? My point is that as long as the gameplay is solid, the graphics really don't matter.

Bryan said...

Excellent points, but with regards to the "Nintendo is an old friend with a drinking problem" line of analogy, I feel it must be mentioned that our old friend is and has been in a rehab program for the past few years and has made excellent progress thanks to some wonderful sponsors.

I could be wrong, but I believe that Nintendo's management has changed a good deal since the release of the Gamecube (and it's a big part of the reason the DS was so successful). They've brought in some new blood on both sides of the pond - that right there is helping to shake their long-standing, conservative company traditions. You'd be hard pressed to find a Nintendo fan who doesn't think Reggie Fils-Aime is an excellent "head of state", as it were, and he's brought some new ways of thinking to the table, and Iwata is no slouch either. It seems like there's better communication between the eastern and western parts of the company, as well.

The Wii could still be a miserable, spectacular failure. But it just seems less and less likely. Even at $250, it's an attractive price point for moms and dads looking to buy Junior a new console (let's face it, they're going to be looking at how much the thing costs, not its graphical horsepower or anything like that). I think they may have lost some potential sales by not launching at $199, but time will tell. I still have misgivings about the Wii (I won't be picking one up at launch, between that and limited funds), but I predict by the time Smash Bros. rolls around it'll be a solid investment.

As far as the PS3, it'll sell out this holiday season, mostly because there really aren't very many. That's a given. And it'll do very well with each price drop. But I don't think it'll do all that well much before. And the 360 will do extraordinarily well this year, too.

I wonder if we'll even really see a clear winner in this hardware cycle?...

-ben said...

Steve...

I have many of the same concerns that you have; however, I do believe that Nintendo is a differnt company than before.

64 Era = Nintendo's rampant cockiness that it alone defined the industry.

GC Era = Oh, who knows... Some great games, but not enough of them.

My MAIN concern with the Wii is not the games. I think it will be an almost carbon copy of the DS. First year will be all "typical" Wii style games, but soon around the second generation comes around we will get "Nintendogs" experience that defines the new era of Wii games. And for a while it will be gravy.

So what is my main concern then? Well with handhelds you can get away with certain graphical quality. There is a beauty and nostalgia to a game like Contact or Mother 3... Something about 2D is comforting.

Again, what is my main concern? For now we look at a game like LoZ:TP and we are in awe, because it looks great. But most Sony systems (and we can hope the 360) last around ten years. What is the Wii going to look like in 5 years? Are we and the public really going to be excited and in awe over graphics that are essentially 10-15 years old?

This leaves us with a problem. How long will Nintendo support the Wii? What will its system life be? Sure the GBA still has a few games coming out for it, and I foresee the DS lasting for another 5 years at least, but how long will the Wii be a viable system?

I never thought of myself as a graphical whore... I mean one of my favorite looking games is still Xenogears from the PSX era. But I find myself often wishing that this PS2 game or that GC game to be coming out for my 360. I recently purchased SP:DA for 360 even though the content on the regular Xbox version is better. And even though Okami is a fantastic looking game I find myself often wishing I could enjoy it in a richer format on my 360.

My point is from a hardcore vet is that maybe... just maybe graphics DO matter.

Steven Kent said...

You make a good point here. Actually, you make a lot of good points here, but the good point I wish to address is graphics.

You know what, if graphics did not matter to Nintendo, they would not have dressed up Super Mario Bros. 3 with vibrant colors in Super Mario All-Stars.

Okay, that is a very obscure reference, I agree. My point is this--I still think The Legend of Zelda, the original Legend of Zelda, is probably the greatest game of all-time. The problem is, after playing so many modern games with better graphics, it's darn near impossible to get drawn into a game that loos so old.

I do, but largely for nostalgic reasons.

Back when they were new, games like SuperC, Super Mario Bros., and Mega Man 2 were considered amazing. They had stunning graphics for their time.

Something else, one of the reasons for putchasing SNES over Genesis was because it handled colors and details so much better. Yes folks, even Nintendo pushed graphics in the past.